I am at the point where I need to replace the Rubicon with something more "Family Friendly". So, I am looking at either a 2003 Liberty Renegade or 2003 Grand Cherokee Laredo 6cyl.

They are both going for around the same amount with the same miles. My question is, which would you recommend for someone who is leaving the TJ world? I will be putting a ~2" lift on which ever I get and 245/75 16 MTRs so I can still offroad.

Are Liberties really that bad? I like the size since they may be more maneuverable offroad. Plus, the Liberty being lighter will be easier to pull out when (not if) I get it stuck.

For the most part, it will be my daily driver and "kid hauler" so I can't do too much to make it unpleasant on-road.

I really don't know much about either. All I would say to research a little is which one would be cheapest to repair if something got dented or scratched off road. If those are the same, flip a quarter or you could let your family decide as to appear very concerned with their opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by corlissb:
"Family Friendly"

Grand ... nuff said

Even though I like the Liberty, it's just plain small, compared to a Grand

The 2 'built' libbies I've seen offroad so far have really impressed me. It you are going to stay in the 245 (rubi 31") tire I'd got for that.

That size tire is about it without doing something drastic (or the 7" rockkrawler kit). But locked front and rear with skids and they'll go just about anywhere you want to put them.

I think for offroading I like the size of the libby. The WJ is nice, just feels a little big and that laredo will be a fairly heavy vehicle on a D35, where the libby will have a 8.25" that is marginally better.

Jason

The photo above was when it was stock.

I fit 32's on mine


I wish I had a photo from the trip to Moon Rocks.


Be sure and check out DesertHorizons KJ on the Liberty thread or here

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mutant,

So far... Libby 2, Grand 1

Grand! More room, more power, wider and longer wheel base.
If you still consider the Liberty, rent one for a day or two when the whole family can go along and see if it fits your lifestyle.

quote:

Originally posted by COL Mustard:
Grand! More room, more power, wider and longer wheel base.
If you still consider the Liberty, rent one for a day or two when the whole family can go along and see if it fits your lifestyle.

Dunno about more power. The laredo has the 4.0L I6 and the libby renegade has the 3.7 v6 that actually puts out a little more power right.. and the libbie is a little lighter.

I took a libby around the 101 course at the last camp Jeep. felt pretty good offroad in the little course they had.

I've also driven my father-in-laws's WJ laredo I6. It does have decent power and the suspension feels a lot like a TJ suspension. The only drawback for me would be wheeling it around trees.. We have LOTS of trees here, I'm betting the MI wheeling has trees too. The longer/wider vehicle normally means getting some body damage.

Or you could wait till the '07s come out in late '06 and get the 4 door wrangler replacement that's being rumored.

Jason

Clearly this is a decision you need to make for yourself. There are pros and cons to each. I personally have a real dislike for any vehicle in its first year or two of production. Too many bugs to work out and refinements that early production models don't have.

When you purchase used, you pretty much are stuck with a few choices that someone else made for you.

Youngest son and his wife have a new Libby. We went with them to the dealership. I was very favorably impressed with the back seat leg room for an adult. It also doesn't have a whole lot more room than the TJ for storing stuff.

I tend to ignore DCs horsepower claims. Those folks are just liars. It takes a lot for a hard core jeeper to get to that point, but I'm there. And it only took me 28 years of buying jeeps to realize they're no better than GM or Ferd with their claims.

As for renting one for a day, thats crazy and a waste of money. Just go to a dealer or two and explain that you want to take a test drive for a few hours in each. I'm betting they'll understand and allow that. Dealers like nothing better than putting a prospective buyer in the drivers seat for a while. Most cars sell themselves better than a salesjerk can. If they won't let you drive one for a reasonable period of time, try another dealer.

I'm getting to the point where I think the driver makes more of the difference than the vehicle. Just a little time and effort on setup will usually allow a good driver to go most places. Choosing either of the choices won't allow you to go places guys with well set up TJs are capable of. Welcome to family 4 wheeling.

It takes some pretty stong self control to stay at home when your buddies are going out and getting crazy. Even more when you go out and they egg you on to try a nasty hill that common sense says will result in serious damage. Its easier when your wife and kids are along, they cry and scream when it gets fun.

If I were buying one today, I'd consider one of the new CRDs in the Libby. They're quiet and get really good fuel economy, even if you're paying higher diesel prices.

Good luck.

I'll add a little more; Dick's right about "impressed with the back seat leg room for an adult. It also doesn't have a whole lot more room than the TJ for storing stuff". My sister has an XJ and there's a lot more room in the back of hers than I had in the KJ for storing stuff. On the other hand, there's more legroom in the back of the KJ than the XJ. Can't speak for the Grand, as I've not been in one.

Jason also has a good point about the new Commander - it may be available later this year as it't a 2006 model: see this thread but, it will be a brand new model with all the bugs to work out. My KJ had a few but wasn't too bad - others had more significant problems.

One of the main reasons I traded in the KJ was the limitations on aftermarket parts and mods - I had done as much as I could with it in a very short time. But that doesn't sound like what you're concerned about now - you be going the other direction.

I assume that the Unlimited won't work for you either. What about a used XJ? There are lots available.

quote:

I assume that the Unlimited won't work for you either. What about a used XJ? There are lots available.

True.. and those things are cheap enough now that you could probably keep the rubi if you have room for it.

Jason

problem with an XJ is the rear doors are painfully small.

The Liberty passes on the highway nicer than the grand, but the little v6 feels like it can't get out of it's own way until it hits 3,000 RPM, so it dogs a bit around the city.

There is more aftermarket for the Grand at this point, though that is changing fast.

Between the two I would lean toward the Grand, but best is to take both for extended test dries and see which you like best.

Of course my personal preference would be to pick up a mid 90s Camry for the family and keep the Rubicon.

Wow, this has been a great bunch of feedback. Well, I really don't want to have a third car and keep the Rubi as a "toy". My wife says that is what my motorcycle is for and I can't say that I blame her.

So, I have been looking and checking the finances and what we can afford. I think I have added more confusion to the mix...

Which would you choose if it were between a NEW '05 Liberty Renegade (X package) with Trailer Tow III or a USED '03 WJ Laredo V8 loaded with Leather and Trailer Tow and around 20K miles? Once I work through the deals at DCX and the length of term to finance the WJ, the $$ would be the same.

V8s sound awfuly nice.

If nothing else, I am learning allot from your feedback so please don't be shy.

Oh, and I would still build them with at least 245/75 16 MTRs, skid plates and Heavy duty rocker sliders and maybe lockers for offroading.

It will either be a "GRAND CHERICON" or "LIBICON". Now all I need is the hood decal!

As a fairly experienced Jeep Nut (I have had three XJs two TJs and a Liberty, I have not owned a Grand but I have driven them off road) I would take the Grand.

I have only owned CJs and TJs. I am nervous about the IFS on the Liberty, but looking at the LOST forums, it looks like they can do what I want. However, a V8 with a solid front axle sounds good.

the V8 Grand all the way

I assume the warranty is still valid on the Grand with 20K? Not that DC will honor it anyhow, but maybe.

Financing rates between new and used can be pretty significant. Keep an eye toward that.

The Grand is much heavier and might be saddled with the terrible one of a kind D44 rear. Watch that one, too. All V8s aren't the same, some demand premium fuel, a 10% loser for you at each fill up, and they aren't known for economy. Liberties will be much less thirsty and will generally run on lower grades of fuel.
Or consider the CRD Libby, maybe the winner of the bunch. Lots of literature at the dealers, no vehicles to test out. Maybe thats changing.

Well, I think I have made up my mind. I go Sunday to look at a 2003 Grand Cherokee Laredo V8... I think this may be "the" one. I have already figured out how to spend almost $3000 upgrading before I even buy it...


Thank you so much for all your help. I'll change my picture to the left and signature once I make the "switch"... Staytuned!

Sweet dude. I don't think you'd be dissapointed with either. But leather and a V8 sounds nice.

If you can have another TJ/SWB Jeep later it will be able to serve as a tow vehicle. Won't be able to keep up with the powerstrokes on the hills, but it could do it.

Jason